MIKE
Welcome to the Surf Industry we have a special guest we are here today with Stephen Baird, I said it right Baird
?
STEPHEN
You said it right you got it Mike that's right buddy.
MIKE
How are you doing I'm doing?
STEPHEN
I’m great man. I'm excited to be on here with you today talking with your listeners and sharing a bit about what we're doing but just excited to get to meet you and talk about the surf industry.
MIKELikewise and I didn't say this in the beginning but Stephen you are the owner of TrackFly and we are going to dive into what TrackFly does how it helps retailers, how it helps Brands, and how it helps shopping locally, but first I want to start with this question you got a big history in the outdoor and the Fly Fishing World. I see you’re working with Brands like
Patagonia you're working with Grundens, Sage, NRS, and Simms…why surf industry why is your next move in the surf industry?
STEPHENWell the the fact of the matter is Mike, you know the the early adoption, the early usage in the outdoor industry specifically with a lot of those Brands. You know some of them on their Simms, Sage they're in the fly fishing industry you might be able to tell just by looking at me I find myself standing on a river quite often.
I love fly fishing so there was a great connection there but really what it came down to was you know niche industries, these specialty Industries. As we've been building TrackFly and growing TrackFly we have a very a very strong commitment to seeing these types of specialty industries grow.
We had an early launch in fly fishing and it was a great experience. Surf was just one step over it was right there as well you know I spent a lot of time on beaches we got family members that are very active in the surf industry and so as we were starting to grow and expand, we were working with our brands, we were working with the likes of Patagonia, and it just kind of came up that the surf industry was a very similar model.
You've got all these amazing local retailers these surf shops and wanting to help them have tools to grow, wanting to make sure that they're making the right business decisions, that they're buying the right products, and that their suppliers see them, that these brands see the channel and are able to fuel that growth. A lot of what we do Mike is passion-driven. It's working with the industries that we personally are involved in that we see as something special and want to see them succeed and surf was no exception to that.
MIKEYeah, now it makes sense I mean because when I was thinking about it I'm like here's the outdoor industry and looking at what you guys do I'm like man something like the running industry makes a lot of sense.
That being said there are plenty of independent stores in the running industry but there are also a lot of chains where I find in the surf industry, it's mainly dominated by independents and that’s what you have a passion for is for independents.
I know that you also work with
Mikey Reilly over at
FreeFly who has a long history in surf and they're making a push into surf, Patagonia, they do surf so I can see how you've parlayed from fly fishing into surf and passion-driven outdoor activities like that.
Speaking of fly fishing I got to get into some of that. My kids want to go fishing, I took them fishing, we casted our poles and my son was like ready to reel it in and I'm like no dude you just sit and wait now and they're like, what, I go...
“See those old-timers reading books with the bobbers on their strings they're waiting if you want to be an active fisherman go fly fishing you'll be moving and shaking doing that.”
STEPHENI love talking to anybody who's never fly-fished before so they can experience it and again that's the passion in these types of industries like surf as well right? Like guys like me guys like Mike you know over at FreeFly it's bringing people in this industry and creating more core users more core consumers, getting people bought in to be able to go and find and enjoy these types of activities.
The answer is to go to these local shops go to these specialty retailers because that's where you find this type of enthusiasm this type of excitement and the best products too. That's where you're going to get the best advice to buy the things that create consumers that are coming back over and over and over again.
And you're right in the running industry, there is actually a very strong correlation with fly fishing and surf having a strong dominance with independents but when you start to get into a lot of these big chains that's where the casual consumers have been going.
We saw a big influx of people coming into surf, into fishing, into outdoors over the last few years and a lot of new customers coming in that were the casual consumers and they're still going back but they're going into the chains. We really need to figure out, and this is one of the things that TrackFly is poised to help with, we want to figure out how to grab those casual consumers and bring them back to the specialty retailers you know when we go fly fishing you better believe we are going to my local fly shop and in there, we're gonna get geared up and we're gonna go out and have a great time and that's what we need to be fueling.
MIKEYeah, I'm with you I mean you're not going to get fly fishing tips on Amazon and the same with surfing you're not going to get surfing tips. You go and talk to the guy who fishes at a specialy retailer, he will give you the best advice. Now let's talk about retail, I want your one-minute pitch on what the problem is for retailers and how TrackFly fixes that problem.
STEPHENYou know when you're a specialty retailer especially if you are an owner you wear a lot of hats. You're constantly managing your staff, you're buying products or you've got a small team of buyers that are buying products you're managing stock, you're doing customer service you you're wearing all these different hats, and what TrackFly comes into is we come to make data readily available at your fingertips.
It makes all of those decisions you have to make that much easier to get to faster. So most specialty retailers are using one point of sale system to manage selling products, managing inventory identifying what they're going to buy.
There are a lot of reports in those point of sales systems, sometimes it's cumbersome to get to, but on top of that, it also is reliant that all of your stock is accurate. That your UPCs are correct, that your titles are correct that your price points are correct.
What TrackFly does for a retailer is connect directly to that point of sales system and we actually cleanse all of that information. We look for the right UPCs across our product database we look for the right category and the right industry so that way you get new automated sales reports and you can go to a buying season and say this is how we performed over the year prior. I can look at all of my brands side by side and see which brands are performing better during a specific cycle.
It makes all of that reporting very easy. Then there's another piece of it that is just as important because we're a network of specialty retailers. you can actually take all of your stores sales performance and compare that to what your peers are doing anonymously.
What is happening in the industry? Is the industry growing and am I growing with it? If not, there are opportunities for me there to catch up. If I am growing alongside it, great keep it up if I'm growing ahead of it, don't stop what you're doing, keep it going, and find those opportunities to drive that but being able to have that benchmark is important.
Then the very last thing that a retailer gets with TrackFly is the ability to take this cleansed organized data and share that securely with their brands and their sales reps.
So we know this by working in the industry, sales reps are constantly calling their specialty retailers, “What's on your shelf, what's sold, can you send me a sales report” You don't have to do that anymore with TrackFly.
You accept a connection and your sales reps are going to know when you're running low, they're going to know when products aren't selling that fast and the next call you're going to have with them is not figuring out what to order, it's them working with you based upon what's happening in their warehouse, what's happening with your store…
“here is the order we would recommend, this is going to drive the most sales and the most volume for you”
And it makes it that much faster to engage with those reps. So those are three core retailer benefits.
MIKEBefore I go to my next question because no joke I just got off the phone, I work in the industry you know, I work for a couple of brands and I work for a brand called
Martha which is by the way a b corp that only sells retail we don't sell direct to consumer we don't sell on Amazon we only sell through retail.
I was talking to one of the reps with something like a hat which is a low average cost you got to sell a lot of hats to put that gas in your car and I'm always like, look I come old school, I was a road rep back in the day, I'm still a road rep, I'm a glorified road rep.
The guy that goes in the store that counts the inventory and makes a suggestion is the guy that's getting the orders but you're saying I could basically log on to my retailer, if they're on TrackFly and before I even go to the store I could say…
”Here's what they have sold here's what they have maybe on demand here's what I know is trending…”
Or I could literally call them and say…
“hey man”
Because there's nothing worse I would imagine for a retailer, than a rep calling him and saying…
“Hey dude need anything”
It drives me up a wall. As a sales manager, I’m like do not do that. When I talk to new reps, you go in there and you make a suggestion before you even talk to the buyer, tell them what they got, tell them what you need, but you're saying I could log on and call and say…
“Hey man, I see you're low on five-panel hats in the Mojave and it looks like you've been sold out for a while I suggest, you know you normally have four in stock I suggest you get six because I read the report…”
Are you saying that the rep can use you as a tool like that?
STEPHEN100% that's exactly what it is and it's updated every single day. It's not just updating you a report once a month for that rep it is what is sitting on the shelf of your partner retailers.
Now, you just said a really important scenario which is…
“Hey man, you've got two of these on the shelf you sold five last week you need to actually carry an average turn of six a week you need to make sure you're in stock…”
That's one really good scenario to increase sales. There's another side of this though if a retailer just purchased 10 hats and they're not selling you're going to know that as the rep and you're going to be able to call up and say…
“Hey I noticed these hats are sitting there they're not moving, we're seeing in the region that these are moving at an average turn of four or five a week, where are they in your store, how can we work together to make sure you move that product?”
And the most important thing right now is to think about this from a retailer's perspective. Everybody needs to move inventory right now, consumer spending is lower, and people are pretty overstocked on inventory.
Collaborate with your reps, collaborate with your brands, and give that visibility so that way you can work together to push through this inventory so that we can make waves for the right products coming in next year and the year after that.
What that means for the brands, if I'm a brand I now know what consumer demand is right now. I'm not manufacturing based upon 2022 or 2023 numbers, I'm looking at what's happening right now so when I'm manufacturing, I'm going to know if I'm going to be over or under or launch a new product because I know what the consumers are doing this year.
So it just makes for a much more intelligent industry and I'm going to drill this home Mike, going back to the question of why surf why specialty? If you're a big retailer, if I'm Walmart, Walmart used to be a client of mine a few years ago, if I'm Walmart I've got teams of hundreds of people analyzing this. I'm spending millions of dollars to know what I should buy. Specialty retailers don't have that luxury.
What TrackFly is here to provide is that type of service, that type of visibility, let us be your team of analysts that Walmart spends millions on. Let TrackFly be that team for you to serve up the information so that as you're making the decisions for your shop, you're going into it informed, you know what the industry is doing, you know what the region is doing, and collaborate with your reps because they want to help you grow as well.
MIKEYou know my next question was gonna be what's the problem how do you fix it for brands but I think you've also answered that as well. I've been on this side of the thing where I'm like hey reps I need some sales reports I want to analyze the market and they got to call up each store and some stores have reports some stores don't and we get them together and we go over them.
It sounds like the more stores that are part of the TrackFly reporting system I could go on to TrackFly and here's the report shop B here's the report shop C and then I can look at an entire market, well there are more than three shops in a market but you know what I’m talking about, so it sounds like it's one location, one database for reporting per market or per state per however you want to break down this Reporting System.
STEPHENYep, that's exactly right, you hit the nail on the head, Mike. As more retailers connect to the platform, whether it's through being invited by their brands, or by their reps, retailers are joining as well because they just want to have more information, they want to have these automated sales reports and as retailers join in, it builds up the database.
As a brand and as a retailer you can get more granular to be able to see what’s happening in San Diego County, what's happening in Southern California, what's happening in the Western United States. Now, the one thing that we have a commitment to the retailers though is that your shop's specific data, across every brand, is always protected and remains anonymous.
As a brand or retailer if you want to drill in on a region we have some requirements. There has to be enough retailers that anonymity can be enforced. There also has to be enough revenue distribution that one retailer doesn't skew the data.
So, we're actually looking at it from a very technical perspective. If you're going to drill in on San Diego County we're going to protect those stores by ensuring that no one retailer can be uncovered and revealed to the industry.
When you're a brand, if you're a rep, you're only looking at your product at that store and when you're looking at industry data you're looking at an anonymized data set that's large enough to be analyzed.
MIKEI've worked with other platforms that don't do what you do but kind of a similar idea in the sense of you're connecting the brand with the retailer and those two basically have to connect where the retailer flips a switch that says you can receive this information and the brand flips a switch on their end that says you can receive this information so just those two connect and like you said, I can't see what brand B is doing or what they're selling the store I can only see my connection. Let’s use Martha as an example, I can see what Martha hats are selling, but I can't see what
Brickton Hats are selling.
STEPHENYes, that’s correct
MIKESo you can see your brand's report at that store and the other store and you can get a cohesive report in the county or the territory for just your brand only there's nothing else being shared.
STEPHENFor specific retailers, yes. However when we talk about market data, so when we roll up and we have that anonymized where retailers information is not in the data set you do have the visibility as a brand and a retailer to look at competitive market share.
So for Martha, you could see what's happening for other hat manufacturers but you wouldn't be able to see what Brixton is doing at one location. You would be able to see “Okay we did this marketing campaign, did we gain market share in the Western United States against our competing brands?”
MIKEDoes it break it down by just brands or will it break it down by like five panels versus truckers?
STEPHENYes so it's brand, it's category it's subcategory, and then different variant information. Is it a five panel, is it a trucker, you know all just the different variances there. So you would be able to track and see what is the performance of this product in this region.
And again, this is where this is so valuable for a brand and I want to I can't emphasize this enough from our mission. Our mission is to see specialty retailers grow, to be refortified as the backbone of these specialty industries and it starts by, as a retailer, let your brands see you. Know what's happening across this channel, these are the core consumers these are the core people that are coming to these stores.
We frequently call them at TrackFly the alpha consumers because they are the consumers that are coming to these local shops. They are the ones that come back month over month week over week. They're the ones that are buying the new products that are launched, they're the ones that are putting it on social media that when new consumers come in they want to look like them and they want to have the same products they have.
We need to understand what's happening in specialty retail and that's what's going to drive growth in these industries in the future.
MIKESo I'm gonna switch it up a little bit because you got me hooked, I'm fascinated now. What's funny is I told your buddy, I said I don't want this to come off like a commercial, but now I'm like no tell me more, I need to know more of the analytics like I'm totally going exactly against what I wanted but let's take us two handsome bearded men in all black and talk about something that you wouldn't picture us talking about bikinis.
Believe it or not, I worked in women’s swimwear for a very long time. Are you telling me that a surf brand that sells swimwear could say, because the markets are all different...
“Hey just so you know in Northern California we're selling more mid-coverage bottoms, and in Florida, we're selling cheeky bottoms”
And a rep could use that information to say…
“look it's not just me, look at the data that TrackFly is supplying cheeky bottoms are selling in Florida mid coverage is selling in NorCal and full coverage is selling in Texas”
You could look at those analytics and brands and retailers can use that information to their advantage when making their buys?
STEPHENYes, a short answer again.
MIKESign me up!
STEPHENSo, I'm gonna go back to this Walmart example, okay. So if you think about a big chain retailer, they've not only got big analyst teams that are looking at data, they have thousands of locations and that's what they're looking at. They can go and say…
“let's go look at these stores in this region and what's selling”
In specialty we don't have the luxury, retailers don't have the luxury of having locations in every single region but what specialty has is a community, and when you bind together the specialty retailers of an industry, it's a way larger presence than any chain retailer.
And when you can bind those retailers together you can get those same types of insights, you can get those same types of regional analysis but it comes by visualizing and understanding the sell-through.
TrackFly is networking together the specialty retailers to bring the same level of insights that a big chain store gets by bringing that community together onto one data platform and it benefits the brands, it benefits the reps, the distributors, it benefits the retailers.
MIKESo speaking of insights are you pulling your insights from more places than TrackFly or is it more of where everything is in TrackFly and the more Brands and the more retailers that come on the more shared data there is?
STEPHENEverything's in TrackFly. We are about building the community so right now. We're recruiting retailers in surf, we're recruiting retailers in skate, we're recruiting retailers in the snow sports, in outdoors and retailers are coming in because they want their own data analyzed and it builds that network. We're seeing retailers come on.
If you're a brand though, and this is data that you want to get, the reason why that rep connection is so important is because when you invite your retailers and they accept your connection it fuels that data set, it fuels those insights.
Essentially what we've done is applied social networking to intelligence across the specialty supply chain. It's invites, it's friend requests and as we all connect together it brings more intelligence to the industry.
MIKEWell you know what's funny is just taking this another step beyond, no joke, speaking of skateboarding, I had a sales manager staying at my house, we were up till midnight last night talking about grip tape and truck and production ordering and forecasting and all these things. And you know sometimes you have reps that they'll give you their forecast and then you have maybe a production manager who's like…
“Okay I don't know how you got to this math or let me cut it down or let me up it…”
It sounds like if you could even use the TrackFly data you could also help with your forecasting for production. Especially with things that are in line, like for example black grip tape. All stores need it but do I order 100 rolls do I order 200 rolls? It's like well look at it right here, this shop sells this many rolls, yeah need this much stock at all times or for 2024.
STEPHENWe just had this happen today, I won't share the brand that we were meeting with about this, but they were looking at this data set and they were planning their production for next year and they were looking at it and some categories weren't even on their horizon but they saw that consumers were buying it and they said…
“We need to make a product, we need a new launch of this item. Whether it's a new color variation or something like that because consumers are going for it”
It totally directs the sales as far as if you're getting into your production forecasting what should you be working on? What are consumers doing in right now? And bringing that level of intelligence. It's been remarkable and I want to make sure to say this as well Mike, like this is not about TrackFly.
We are a connective tissue when it comes down to the supply chain, to the industry you know we are here to see the brands and the retailers in this industry get better connected. Work closely together and see each of their businesses grow.
We just love to be that supporting cast member. We built the technology, and we've got the tools to be able to do it, it's really about brands and retailers coming together to grow together and when we hear brands that are launching new product lines directly correlated, we know that they're spending their dollars more efficiently because they're doing it with data points.
When I see retailers make a more targeted buying cycle because they're working with their reps that's success for us, that's what we want to see happen so it's been incredibly rewarding to do it.We love to just sit here and have conversations like this with guys like you who get so excited about it because you know these specialty industries just haven't had these tools.
I worked in big retail, I worked with these enterprise retailers and I saw what they had access to and it's mind blowing and it was so eye-opening and how unavailable it was to the marketplace and that's where TrackFly came from. That's why it started, was the desire to democratize that type of information.
MIKEYou bring up such a great point though and I feel bad because I would say this guy is one of my favorite marketers and I'm totally forgetting his name right now, he's a great guy but his whole thing is, which I've really adapted, to my life and just what I do for
Building the Revolution or like you know Surf Shop Day, in all these things that you know I've done, Surf Shop days is no longer mine I gave it to
SIMA (Surf Industry Members Association), but it's like we are not the hero as you mentioned, you're part of the conversation.
We're not the hero in the story I'm just a guide, the heroes are the independent retailers who are the backbone of our industry that is fueled by passion as you said when we were talking about fly fishing, they're going to get you off on the best foot. They're going to teach you all you need to know these are the heroes and we're just guides to hopefully show them a path that will make them even bigger heroes.So, I like what you said earlier you know this isn't about TrackFly, this is about being part of the conversation and growing the community and putting a spotlight on these people. You took some knowledge that you learned from working at some of these bigger box guys and are sharing it with the true heroes of our industry.Speaking of true heroes what are some surf shops that you're currently working with?
STEPHENYeah so a couple of surf shops that have come on recently over on the East Coast, VB Surf Sessions, is a great one
Ocean Surf,
Surf City Surf Shop, and
Sick Day, it's been really exciting to see some of the the surf shops start to come in and you know what's exciting about it is when a retailer connects to their point of sale system they have their automated analytics in about 48 hours.In about 48 hours they can start to invite their reps and their reps can receive those sell-through reports, so it happens really quickly.
We're also a major supporting vendor for the
Board Retailers Association and through that channel, we've seen a lot of awesome shops come in you know
George Leichtweis at
Modern Skate up in Detroit is another great shop that we're working with so it's been really exciting to see it come in but we're just getting started.
MIKESo let me ask you this, does it start with the retailer or does it start with the brand? Is it the retailers that sign up and invite the brands in, or are the brands that sign up and invite retailers or both?
STEPHENBoth yes. Retailers don't have to be invited by a brand to benefit. They can start to get their own store reports and it starts to build into those industry analytics, but we see brands sign signing up I mean again you know, you talked about
Mikey Reilly at FreeFly, they're actively inviting their retailers to connect on TrackFly as well and retailers are also coming through Patagonia actively inviting their retailers.
MIKEIs there a cost for retailers is there a cost for brands, how do they sign up?
STEPHENThere is no cost for retailers to get signed up. This is built for them to be able to grow and analyze their business. In full transparency market data and benchmarking data are advanced analytics that if you're a larger or a more advanced shop you can subscribe to but most retailers, especially in the specialty side of things get to those free with that free account.
Brands do subscribe for the market data so they can analyze that and then when a sales rep connects to their retailers there is a subscription cost for that brand. It's $150 bucks a year for one retailer connection so if you do one more order with them that cost is recovered.
MIKESo tell me the negative of TrackFly like I'm ready to get off this meeting call the owner of Martha and be like we should really do this this looks pretty freaking sweet.
STEPHEN
Well I mean we can absolutely do that and we'll get you all set up Mike because this is exciting for us as well we love talking to brands.You know the downside simply….I can't think of one, I'm probably biased if I really were to say something it is a new concept right? For some specialty retailers, it can be a little daunting to share data you know?
You’ve had your hat on you've built your business to where it is today, and we live in a world where sharing data is kind of scary and looked down upon. I mean the big companies are scraping data everywhere our message to the retailers though is yes we do ask you to provide your sales data but what we promise to them is that it will remain anonymous and it's fully transparent.
Any data that works its way to your brands is also visible to you. There is no data that we pull and we sell upstream or sell to other third parties. It’s all transparent in how this data is benefiting the industry. So that's the downside it's daunting to share data but we're here to make it so that it's visible, that it's transparent, and it's beneficial to you.
MIKEDude, I'm not kidding, I didn't know what to expect when I got on with you and I'm completely blown away and I'm like no joke I've had conversations with reps, companies I work for, and sales managers, and other reps other companies and feedback I'm getting from the market is the reps that show up with knowledge and are the reps that win.
Imagine walking into the store with the knowledge that you already have and you walk in you do your talking you're like…
“Hey, I've already analyzed your data I've already done this here's what I think we do”
STEPHENRetailers want their reps to be consultants, not order-takers.
MIKEOh my God, dude are we kindred spirits you know many times I use the term,
“Don't be an order taker”
STEPHEN
It’s the truest form of fashion and when I mean we've talked to a thousand specialty retailers over the last year when we asked them what the biggest thing they wanted from their vendors was, it was better rep engagement...
“I want my reps to be consultants I want my reps to come in and help me understand what to buy not just come in with a big order and put it on the table that I have this is my minimum I've gotta fill it”
MIKEYou know dude seriously you have cameras in my office you listening to me? I say it all the time don't be an order taker don't just show up and take an order and disappear.
All right well dude I'm super psyched about this meeting I just want to say thanks, since we're talking about where should people go to get more info about TrackFly.
STEPHENIf anybody wants more info go to www.trackfly.com or email us at info@trackfly.com you'll get a quick response from that. Please reach out we're eager to talk to anybody who wants to learn more.
